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Justin Cody
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Posted - 2013.11.08 17:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
PICTURES! Because text is silly!
CURRENT w/current zealot for comparisson!
PROPSOED w/current zealot for comparisson!
Proposed Bonus Changes!
The idea is to enhance the feeling of being a recon including enhancing specialization. Many people complain about the pilgrim not having the range bonus I however see it in a different light. Its neuts are simply not effective enough at close range. Increase that effectiveness and expand to cap transfer ability for possible new metas (spider tanking pilgrims etc). Remove the targeting delay like on stealth bombers and allow them to ignore bubbles.
Alternatively instead of allowing them to ignore bubbles simply increase their speed while cloaked like black ops so at level 5 they move say at the speed of a shuttle while cloaked (625m/sec or so).
the Curse needs to be as fast as a cerberus to keep up with the current generation of ships and of course enhanced hit points and capacitor. The thing is a damned neut boat that is almost forced to fit a micro-warp drive that eats at a large chunk of its cap just by being fit.
Tuning up base cap and lowering recharge time is almost a must as well as lowering the agility modifier (still not as agile as the current huginn). To be a combat recon the drone damage bonus needs enhancing and a slight addition to bandwidth for a bit of tactical flexibility and a large expansion of capacity for a few flights.
comments please! |

Justin Cody
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Posted - 2013.11.08 17:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:Images are a pain to read.
get some reading glasses |

Justin Cody
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Posted - 2013.11.08 18:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Batelle wrote:The curse does not need 100% increased damage. Combat recons should not be black ops bridgable. Covert recons should absolutely not get bubble immunity. 7.5% bonus to tracking disruptors is fine and already very powerful.
Giving the pilgrim energy transfer bonuses is quite interesting. WIth the way Nos works now you could pass your cap off to someone else and then drain. The problem is nos drain is still very slow compared to the rate at which energy transfers and neutralizers work. You would also need a range bonus on the transfers to make it usable. IMO this idea is not workable. By the way spider tanks are not the same as cap chains. Having two curses cap xfering each other while neuting is interesting, but i think it would be a bit OP in some situations but a useless bonus otherwise.
Moving the covert CPU bonus to a role bonus is just a giveaway to people too lazy to train recons 5. Stop being bad and train it.
The proposed sig reductions are waaaayyyy too much and the proposed base speed introductions are waaayyy to high. Especially when on top of the modest decreases in mass.
Giving a bonus to cloaked velocity is a cool idea, but it can't be the same bonus that blackops get because with covert cloaks giving no speed reduction arleady, we'd end up with like 2km/s cloaked pilgrims. Making them go like 300-500m/s cloaked would be pretty cool though and not terribly broken.
Improvements to HP look ok, but i noticed you gave them significant bonuses to capacitor while also reducing the cap recharge time. Typically if CCP wants to boost somethings cap, they will increase the max amount and increase the recharge time only a bit.
Covert recons should NOT get stealth-bomber instant uncloak-locking ability.
I disagree about the sig radius simply based on the sig of t2 logistics being between 65 and 85. These are still higher and with less tank. I agree about the nos drain rate being a bit slow to be useful...but that is another argument and not limited to the pilgrim/curse. The curses don't get the cap x-fer bonus in my proposal...but it could be interesting to try if they also get a range extension. They can't do 2K while cloaked...I don't know where you got that. But putting their speed on par with t1 cruisers isn't OP. I would prefer the cloaked speed boost to bubble immunity but I thought I'd slip it in there as an idea. The buffs to cap are slim and in-line with what was done to hacs in general and in fact markedly less so than what hac's received.
I want the pilgrim to be the close in heavy tackler...gets a scram and drops cyno on the target. The decloaking deplay is just too much of a pain and I'd have it stay. You're already at 0ms when you light a cyno so I don't see it as broken. Hell being in scram range puts you in major danger. The pilgrim is unique among the recons for having a reasonable tank at close range. |

Justin Cody
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Posted - 2013.11.09 01:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Batelle wrote: -Logi are special. Recon signatures should be comparable to HACs, not logi. Covert recons should die when shot, and combat recons can already be very tanky if fit for it. -Nos is too slow to pair with cap transfers in some kind of "give away cap, nos bad guy cap" application. Nos is fine otherwise, so really im just saying the bonus is out of palce. -2km while cloaked was in reference to your cloak speed bonus in the text of your post. It was one idea i found to be interesting. The 2km/s number is a rough estimate based on transfering the blops bonus directly to a ship that uses a cloak with no speed penalty, that is all. Bubble immunity is a absolute no, but having a smallish buff to cloaked speed is nice to help covert recons position better -Recons should be slower than t1 attack cruisers. -For capacitor, the curse is getting a roughly 60-70% improvement to peak recharge and 50% bonus to base capacitor. IIRC this is much bigger buff than what hacs got. That is not "slim," which is why i suggested a slight increase to recharge time instead of decrease. -Recons indeed need much less of a buff than what hacs got
Regarding the pilgrim, it already is a close in heavy tackler. Removing the cloaking delay is entirely unnecessary for it to continue to do this well. Most pilgrims uncloak by bumping their target anway. Recons also target fast as it is, so unless you're trying to heavy tackle a ratting assault frig or something i don't see the problem (and ratting assault frigs aren't particularly agile anyway). If you're going to tackle and light a cyno, then I don't know why you're concerned about your tank or targetting speed. You're either going to die anyway because its a suicide cyno onto a hostile fleet, or you're going to instagib whatever you're hotdropping, and your target will never have a chance to get through the armor you'll already have. And if you are hotdropping something, that thing is not going to warp anywhere in 5 seconds.
Logi aren't special...they're another class of ship. Recons are also another class of ship...also not special just in need of a boost to flavor. Being recons they should be able to...reconnoiter (y'know scout and bring back intelligence). This means they should be like the cloaky ones...hard to catch cause they cloak...or they should have some sort of method for avoiding getting caught for the combat ones...such as a higher speed and sig radius. I suggested that it should be 650 meters/sec cloaked not 2kms.
your opinion on recons needing to be slow is dismissed because it has no reasoning other than that you don't like it.
It had a slim reduction in recharge time (about 30 seconds shaved or 10%) and the base cap was buffed quite heavily but only because this ship is highly cap dependent. Neuts...mwd...invulns etc all take cap and the neuts take way more than lasers...blasters or railguns do so don't even bother bringing it up. If you expamine the stats it still has worse cap in amount and in recharge time than the zealot. hardly OP.
Removing the cloaking delay is an easy and excellent boost and a way to show specialization in a role. Most people I talk to would at the moment rather use a tech 3 cruiser to do the same exact thing because it has a better tank...and can WARP THROUGH BUBBLES CLOAKED. but I'm glad to know you're against that. its not like it isn't in game already or anything. You don't have to be a suicide cyno if you fit a pair of 1600mm plates. Sometimes a good triage pilot will save your rear end!
Besides if I was going to suicide cyno I'd use a stealth bomber. It can warp cloaked and has no decloaking targeting delay. I know a super pilot who does just that all the time to kill carriers and camp cyno beacons. Your limited experience and shallow knowledge of the game show through. 5 seconds is more than enough time to get away. THANKS LOCAL CHAT. |
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